Dranaan (July 6, 1999)HI. I am brand new to this NG. I read the FAQ, so I hope that I do not step on any toes with this post. Can anyone fill me in on the basics of this NG's specific netiquette? Also, I am currently writing my undergraduate thesis on ghost short fiction. May I ask for help from more knowledgeable people here? Or shall I slink away quietly to the library? May I ask for recommedations on new and classic ghost fiction or must I brave the decrepit pit that is the Barnes and Noble horror section?Advice? Opinions? Salutations?
Here's hoping I did not offend,
Dranaan McKeowan
oOo
rbadac (July 6, 1999)
Hi, Dranaan. You're in the right place. Stay away from Barnes and Noble, they're evil incarnate.We've been here awhile, and already have plenty of opinion stacked up in the closet. Take you a week to read it, but it might get you started on your thesis faster. Try a search in this forum with your favorite authors or keywords.
As to etiquette, here are some tips:
1) Don't try to sell anything here. We are self-contained, intelligent, resourceful individuals who can get whatever we want whenever we wish. We do not require prompting as to possible wants we have not thought of yet. We'll get around to them, believe me. Therefore we do not need salespersons.
2) If you are easily offended, cover your ears when salespersons, idiots, airheads, wannabe writers, 'true' ghost story advocates, crackpots, bratty kids, and suspicious-looking foreigners arrive here. They do not go gentle into that good night. We make sure of that.
3) Do not encourage anyone's poetry. Please. These people are rare animals, with a rich diet and ego to spare. They are not like other mortals. Compliments only make them ill and unmanageable.
4) Don't bring R.L. Stine in here. We have a rope. We got it on E-bay, brand-new. I did the knot.
5) Get a splatter guard for your computer screen. You'll know what it's for when it happens.
That should about cover it. Welcome to Hell.
rbadac
oOo
Randy Money (July 6, 1999)
I second all rbadacabcdadbacaba... said, Dranaan, but to expand a bit on this point, here's the url for a faq that Bill Allison has created for the list.http://home.epix.net/~wallison/abgf_faq.html
Randy Money
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Randy Money (July 6, 1999)
Sorry. Hit the send too soon. The reason I sent this is because that FAQ includes a list of important publishers and individual titles and authors you should look for.Randy
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Robert Suggs (July 6, 1999)
Dranaan wrote:(a well-mannered greeting).
Why be timid, Dranaan? Barge right in. It's obvious you're not here to sell anything and you're in the right place. It's a small and homy newsgroup, but we like it. Most of us are non-violent, due mainly to the government-funded cells in which we're confined. As Randy (he who always Sends Prematurely) has pointed out, the FAQ at the Web Site, posted by quasi-lurker Bill Allison (you out there, Bill? Bill? Never mind), contains a wealth of wonderful information that would even make, I must point out, a trip to Barnes and Noble a helpful one; that is, he's included updated listings of the most easily accessible sources of classic ghost fiction. Let us know what inspired your research project (rbadac got footnoted in a Norton Critical Edition once; he's largely a footnote in life, just between us). Don't expect us to do your work for you, of course; both shiftlessness and integrity would prevent that.
As rbadac has implied, spontaneous poetry flies free and unfettered in these parts; he's inspired me to work afresh.Rob
oOo
William Allison (July 8, 1999)
Robert Suggs wrote:-snip-
>posted by quasi-lurker Bill Allison (you out there, Bill? Bill? Never mind)
Well, I'm around in spirit anyway. Due to some "circumstances beyond my control", I may very well ascend, for a time, to "Senior Lurker" status--a rarefied and exalted state--currently only enjoyed by Steve Wise. You may not see me but...
I'll be reading...
Bill A.
PS- Thanks for the FAQ mention Rob (and Randy).
oOo
Randy Money (July 6, 1999)
Robert Suggs wrote:
> Why be timid, Dranaan? Barge right in. It's obvious you're not here to
> sell anything and you're in the right place. It's a small and homy
> newsgroup, but we like it. Most of us are non-violent, due mainly to
> the government-funded cells in which we're confined. As Randy
> (he who always Sends Prematurely) has pointed out,[*sigh*] Just when I thought the medication was working...
[...]
> As rbadac has implied, spontaneous poetry flies free and unfettered in
> these parts; he's inspired me to work afresh.Oh, dear. Not again.
Randy
(poetry impaired)oOo
paghat (July 6, 1999)
SKINNY LEROY
by Paghat the RatgirlSkinny Leroy was so thin
A soda straw fit over him.oOo
Steve Wise (July 7, 1999)
Archibald is so wide,
He has no other side.oOo
Dranaan (July 6, 1999)
Robert Suggs wrote:
> Let us know what inspired your research projectMy own lifelong interest, actually. NOthing more than that.
> Don't expect us to do your work for you, of course;
Of course not! But perhaps people here could direct me to crotical sources, which is where I am having the hardest time. There is a wealth of primary material out there, but very little information on the ghost story as a genre.
Dranaan
oOo
Reed Andrus (July 7, 1999)
And a hearty BOO! from me as well. I'm sure there are pleny of ne-crotical sources from which to glean, those that aren't already shrinkwrapped and stored for... er, future use. I wouldn't call ghost stories a genre unto themselves -- am I being heretical, folks? -- maybe a subgenre of genre-alized supernatural body of work. Critical works? Check out Necrophile, anything by S.T. Joshti, McFarland Publishers, our own inimitable paghat the ratgirl -- who else, fellow wingbacks?... Reed
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Paul Montelone (July 7, 1999)
Good secondary source material includes:Jack Sullivan. ELEGANT NIGHTMARES. Ohio UP, 1978. (excellent discussion of the ghost story in general, and Le Fanu and M.R. James in particular)
S. T Joshi. THE WEIRD TALE. U of Texas P, 1990. (excellent stuff on Machen, Dunsany, Blackwood, Beirce, and of course Lovecraft, and a delightfully controversial assessment of M. R. James)
Peter Penzoldt. THE SUPERNATURAL IN FICTION. Humanities P, 1965. (I've not read this, but Joshi calls it "stimulating." Undoubtedly a must-citation.)
Edward Wagenknecht. SEVEN MASTERS OF SUPERNATURAL FICTION. Greenwood, 1991. (Discusses Le Fanu, Henry James, M. R. James, Blackwood, Machen, de la Mare, and Marjorie Bowen. Haven't read it.)
And Jack Sullivan's PENGUIN ENCYCLOPEDIA OF HORROR AND SUPERNATURAL (Penguin, 1986) contains some good general essays in addition to material on individual writers.
Paul M. (wondering why a photo of Jawaharlal Nehru is the frontispiece of Devendra P. Varma's THE GOTHIC FLAME)
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Dranaan (July 8, 1999)
> (snipping good sources)I wrote them all down and will head off to the library tomorrow. Thank you so much!
Dranaan
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John Pelan (July 6, 1999)
Dranaan wrote:
> HI. I am brand new to this NG. I read the FAQ, so I hope that I do
> not step on any toes with this post. Can anyone fill me in on the
> basics of this NG's specific netiquette?Welcome aboard!
As to netiquette, crackpots and mendicants are usually caned, wannabe writers and peddlers are often ridiculed and THEN caned. But other than that it's a pretty friendly bunch.
We've posted a lot of material on Victorian and Edwardian authors, both on this newsgroup and on the old Horrornet message board. A search by author name should lead to some useful data. I think the Horrornet stuff is out there in cyberspace somewhere as well...
Cheers,
John
BTW: If you must go to B & N, check their bargain shelf for THE ROALD DAHL OMNIBUS... I think they've priced at around $7-$8!
oOo
Robert Suggs (July 7, 1999)
John Pelan wrote:
>BTW: If you must go to B & N, check their bargain shelf for THE ROALD
>DAHL OMNIBUS... I think they've priced at around $7-$8!YES!! I was ashamed to admit slumming in those parts, but I grabbed said Dahl collection-- and a hc of McFarland's A Face in the Window at 4.98--just yesterday. The rest of the time I walked around and made catty and dismissive comments about the place, so it all evened out.
Now. As to research sources. It's true there's little scholarly work on ghost stories--and yes, by strict definition I suppose the word genre must be used--but there's a volume by Julia Briggs entitled Night Visitors: The Rise and Fall of the English Ghost Story. Peter Penzoldt's The Supernatural in Fiction is fairly influential (David G. Hartwell just loves it a whole bunch); Jack Sullivan's Elegant Nightmares is another study of the English tradition, and for reference purposes his Penguin Encyclopedia of Horror and the Supernatural has some articles by a few who know their stuff such as E. Bleiler and Richard Dalby. Not to be overlooked would be some of the introductions, from M. R. James' own to Michael Cox's introduction to the Casting the Runes Oxford paperback collection as well as the Oxford Book of English Ghost Stories. S. T. Joshi did write The Weird Tale, if you want to read someone who speaks of M. R. James as we do Barnes and Noble. Montague Summers' introduction to The Supernatural Omnibus is interesting, as is Lovecraft's long essay Supernatural Horror in Literature. I checked many of these titles in the back of the Oxford Book of EGS to be sure I got the titles right, and it's a nice starting point, particularly with the list of great collections. I've been back to it many times. Hope this helps. Use a Courier type font, margins of at least one inch, please double-space and refer to Strunk and White on issues of style
Prof. Rob
be used--oOo
Dranaan (July 8, 1999)
Robert Suggs wrote:(snipping great information)
>Use a Courier type
> font, margins of at least one inch, please double-space and refer to
> Strunk and White on issues of styleDoes this go for all papers, in your opinion, or just ones of the magnitude of theses? I do double-space all my papers, of course. And Strunk and White? Really? I am ashamed to say I have never owned a copy! I tend to use various books for style questions. Is this really the best one?
Ooops, sorry, this is not on-topic. Is that ok?
> Prof. Rob
(dare I ask where you teach?)Thanks again,
Dranaan
oOo
William Allison (July 8, 1999)
Dranaan wrote:-snip-
>And Strunk and White? Really? I am ashamed to say I have never owned a
>copy! I tend to use various books for style questions. Is this really
>the best one?You mean there are OTHERS?
>Ooops, sorry, this is not on-topic. Is that ok?
Sure. This is a pretty relaxed bunch. The canes only come out when a salesperson comes around. We even had (Heaven help us), a "fart joke" sort of thread running for awhile last year- I guess all ghosts and no play makes for a bunch of dull boys (and girls). When one posts to the group, it is sometimes less a matter of wanting to address the topic of the group, as wanting to address the collective inhabitants of the group, regardless of topic (yes, in the wrong hands this could be called either "trolling" or if multiple groups are involved "spamming"; but I think you see what I'm getting at).
As to our "topic", no less a leading light than Richard Dalby, in the introduction to his anthology THE SORCERESS IN STAINED GLASS AND OTHER GHOST STORIES, said:
The term 'ghost story' has a much wider meaning now than
it had a hundred years ago. Whereas it used to only feature
'phantasms of the dead', it now signifies any of the many
branches of the supernatural, from elementals to fairies,
vampires and zombies, to transference of souls.So even if we were worried about staying narrowly "on-topic", that gives us a pretty wide field to work. But don't worry about it. Who knows, maybe I'll bring up my Tintin binge I've been on of late... Or not.
Welcome to the group!
Bill A.
oOo
Dranaan (July 8, 1999)
William Allison wrote:
> As to our "topic", no less a leading light than Richard Dalby, in the
> introduction to his anthology THE SORCERESS IN STAINED GLASS AND OTHER
> GHOST STORIES, said:This sounds like a great introduction! I tried to look up the book, but I guess it is either out of print or it is not an American title. Or perhaps I have to order it from someplace special, a smaller publisher or a special editions publisher? Please let me know. Feel free to respond via e-mail if this topic has already been addressed on the NG.
Thanks,
Dranaan
oOo
Robert Suggs (July 8, 1999)
Dranaan, anything edited by Richard Dalby will be worth your time. "Sorcerer" is scarce by now, but you can pick up his Mammoth Book of Ghost Stories fairly easily, by either that name or, in Barnes and Noble, Phantastic Book of Ghost Stories. It's bargain priced and filled with good stuff. By the way, also check out the hyperlinks on Bill A's alt.books.ghost-fiction FAQ to some of the classic stories on the Web. Most of the perennials are there.Rob
oOo
William Allison (July 8, 1999)
Dranaan wrote:
>This sounds like a great introduction! I tried to look up the book,
>but I guess it is either out of print or it is not an American title.Correct on both counts. The book was published in 1971 by Tom Stacy Reprints, Ltd. in the UK. Our man Dalby was a mere 22 or so when this (his first) anthology appeared. It was very much a precursor to Hugh Lamb's fine series of anthologies. Stacy was to publish a second from Dalby, THE SPECTRE SPIDERS, but went bankrupt before doing so.
>Or perhaps I have to order it from someplace special, a smaller
>publisher or a special editions publisher? Please let me know. Feel
>free to respond via e-mail if this topic has already been addressed on
>the NG.A search on www.bookfinder.com shows two used copies available. As Rob said, this book is on the scarce side, but is not nearly as hard to come by as GHOSTS & SCHOLARS, co-edited by Dalby and Rosemary Pardoe. I'd have to rate that the "Holy Grail" of Dalby's ghost-story anthologies.
Bill A.
oOo
William Allison (July 8, 1999)
John Pelan wrote:
>As to netiquette, crackpots and mendicants are usually caned, wannabe
>writers and peddlers are often ridiculed and THEN caned. But other than
>that it's a pretty friendly bunch.Canings are indeed a time-honored tradition here, endorsed by none other than the great Le Fanu himself:
'It--him--some one--you mean--to be sure I did,' replied
Montague, testily. 'But where is the good or the harm of
seeing him? The fellow runs like a lamp-lighter. I wanted
to catch him, but he had stolen away before I could reach
the halldoor. However, it is no great matter; next time,
I dare say, I'll do better; and egad, if I once come within
reach of him, I'll introduce his shoulders to the weight of
my cane.'-from "The Familiar", IN A GLASS DARKLY (1872)
Almost makes me want to purchase a cane... To take to the office.
Bill A. (developing a distinct limp...)
oOo
John Brower (July 7, 1999)
Dranaan wrote:(a very nice and polite introduction)
Well, you've already been warned about spamming, poetry, and R. L. Stine, so there's just one more important issue --
you don't have any strange and expensive pets, do you?
John Brower
(my cat Partch is a bit odd, but does not run up extravagant bills)
oOo
rbadac (July 8, 1999)
Named after Harry Partch??KEWL !!
rbadac, a big Harry Partch fan, doesn't even have to listen to him; when he wants inspiration, he just reads a list of the song titles...
oOo
John Brower (July 8, 1999)
Yup. He's filling the very large paws of the dear, departed Varese.
John Brower
(happy to have scored a point with rbadac for something besides his infernal quizzes)
P.S. also happy to be living in the same city as someone whose Harry Partch collection puts mine to shame -- Dr. Philip Blackburn
P.S.S. anybody not know that Delusion of the Fury will be out on compact disc this year, thanks to Dr. Blackburn? Ee yo! Ee yo! Ee yo!
oOo
Dranaan (July 8, 1999)
My cats Grimly and Isis are not at all costly, but I fear they are rather strange.....my poor recently deceased kitten Squeak Toy was a bit costly, due to the birth defect we eventually lost him to, but I think he was worth it. And I want to own a fruit bat one day....am I in trouble now?Dranaan
oOo
John Brower (July 8, 1999)
No, no. No problem.Over-accessorizing will get you some grief.
Or pets that hang out with a low-class crowd when you're away.
Or, of course, pets that spam this newsgroup, write poetry, or read R. L. Stine.
John Brower
oOo
Reed Andrus (July 8, 1999)
Dranaan wrote:
> And I want to own a fruit bat one day....am I
> in trouble now?Not if you name him Eric.
... Reed
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William Allison (July 8, 1999)
Dranaan wrote:-snip-
>And I want to own a fruit bat one day....am I in trouble now?
>Nope, only if you had said "vampire bat". Now THAT'S weird... Or maybe if you said you wanted to BE a vampire bat one day... (Or a fruit bat for that matter...)
Bill A. (hoping no one looks in HIS belfry)
PS- I've been thinking myself lately that an owl would make a
fine pet. Perhaps I could put the perch in the bedroom so
the bird could stand vigil over me in the wee hours...oOo
dowsonian (July 8, 1999)
Say, would a cheetah-girl count?
dowsonian (otherwise pet-less)
oOo
Robert Kunath (July 10, 1999)
[A timid hello/research sources]Dear Draanan,
Welcome to the group. I'm checking in on your query a bit late, and I see that you've been given some excellent references. One source that I don't think I've seen mentioned (apologies if I missed it) is H.P. Lovecraft's classic essay "Supernatural Horror in Literature" (the best edition is by S.T. Joshi in Arkham House's collected edition of Lovecraft: the volume *Dagon and Other Macabre Tales"). Lovecraft's essay is, of course, not focused exclusively on ghost fiction, but it is an essential source (and one that is both primary and secondary simultaneously).
And while I am sure that you do not expect us to do your work for you, I expect that most of us would be quite interested to know your thoughts as you work on your thesis. You won't find better commentary on ghost fiction anywhere, I think, so do run your ideas past us.
Robert
P.S. There is a wealth of critical commentary on classic ghost stories in the journal Ghosts & Scholars, which has been published for something like 20 years. The editor, Rosemary Pardoe, is creating an archive of some of the earlier contents on the G & S website, and she might be able to guide you to some helpful essays (I don't have the URL handy, but you can find the site pretty easily by searching under "Ghosts & Scholars").
oOo
Robert Suggs (July 10, 1999)
I think I did mention Lovecraft's essay, but I can add that the following site has a list of all the authors referenced in it with hyperlinks to e-texts or author info when available:http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5582/shil_lnk.html
This is a good idea I've wanted to see done. Actually it would be nice to see the essay itself as an html with appropriate hotlinks. Nice for research. The existing one is how I found the Sinclair story (which is attributed, at its own site, apparently to the transcriber instead of Sinclair!).
Here is Rosemary Pardoe's Ghosts and Scholars site, which Ms. Pardoe keeps admirably active and up to date:
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pardos/GS.html
And finally, above and beyond your ABGF University tuition, here is the ultimate research site:
http://www.itools.com/research-it/
It has quick dictionary, thesaurus, language converters, biographical reference, quotations, money converters, etc. etc. Go nuts.
Rob
oOo
Randy Money (July 12, 1999)
Great links, Rob. Thanks for sharing them. Just to note, the Sinclair story has also appeared in Alan Ryan's _Haunting Women_, a fine anthology.Randy
ooOoo